Recently, I became engaged in an e-mailed dialogue with a Mohammedian by the name of "Yahya," who ran across this site and wished to notify me of the existence of "Answering Christianity."
The first e-mail was as follows:
From: converts to islam <yahya@convertstoislam.org>
To: <ixthys@usa.net>
Subject: Answering Christianiy
Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 10:17 AM
Dear Michael D Macon,
Here is a nice page to link on yours:
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/BaltoMuslims/answers.html
Yahya
I looked up the page, and found a wonderful treasure-trove of articles about and links to sites about Mohammedism; in response, I wrote the following:
From: michael d macon <ixthys@wmis.net>
To: converts to islam <yahya@convertstoislam.org>
Cc: <haramain@alharamain.org>
Subject: Re: Answering Christianiy
Date: Monday, July 12, 1999 8:43 AM
Absolutely marvelous page! It has so very, very many Mohammedian links for
me to continue my research/response/apologetics ministry!
Already I found one very fascinating page you link -- "60 Questions for the
Christians" -- and I have by Jesus' all-pervading grace responded to it.
You can find that response at http://home.wmis.net/~ixthys (navigate to the
Apologetics section -- it's the newest addition) or by going directly to the
article (http://home.wmis.net/~ixthys/ansfomo.htm).
Again, marvelous site! You can be sure I will be back often to study more
on how the most recent crop of Mohammedian apologists are plying their
religion, so as to be able to better respond with the Gospel and Word of
God! Thank you, thank you, thank you, in Jesus' Name! (I truly do mean
that with absolutely no rancor, incidentally, though doubtless it will be
taken as such...)
Baruch haShem haMashiyach Y'Shua!
michael d macon
http://www.calvarychapel.org/grandrapids/muskegon
http://home.wmis.net/~ixthys
What ensued was a truly incredible interchange which I am posting here for you, dear reader, to peruse and hopefully understand the absolutely fascinating mindset of Mohammedism; note the glaring double-standard in Yahya's continued e-mailed missals to me, and the utter inability (or, at best, unwillingness) to see it. I publish this here for clarity; it is normally considered poor netiquette to post personal e-mail discussions without the permission of all relevant parties; however, Yahya has already posted to the "Converts to Islam" site the contents of the messages, and so the question is moot. I will add only short, clarifying further commentary, and otherwise simply post my e-mailed responses to Yahya's e-mailed diatribes. Pray for this deluded soul, dear Christian reader!
From: converts to islam <yahya@convertstoislam.org>
To: <ixthys@wmis.net>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 5:32 AM
Subject: Racist statement
Dear Michael,
Calling Muslims Mohammedianis is extremely offensive to Muslims. We are
Muslims and not Mohammedians. This borders is hatred and rancor in your
heart unless uou make this change.
yahya
From: michael d macon <ixthys@wmis.net>
To: converts to islam <yahya@convertstoislam.org>
Subject: Re: Racist statement
Date: Monday, July 12, 1999 1:15 PM
I'm tremendously sorry you see it that way, but I refuse to change a
perfectly correct statement. Your religion was founded by Mohammed, and
hence you are a Mohammedian. It is hardly racist. No rancor is intended,
but I cannot help if you choose to feel that way.
Incidentally, the vast majority of statements in most Mohammedian websites
concerning Christianity are "extremely offensive" to us, too. Where the
concern for this, one wonders?
From: converts to islam <yahya@convertstoislam.org>
To: <ixthys@wmis.net>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 11:05 AM
Subject: Racist
Unless you change this offensive term in my eyes you are nothing but
another Christian racist hatemonger in a long line of hate mongers. Our religion
is Islam and we are Muslims. Again this term you are using is very offenisve.
Remove it at once...
From: michael d macon <ixthys@wmis.net>
To: converts to islam <yahya@convertstoislam.org>
Subject: RE: Racist
Date: Monday, July 12, 1999 3:36 PM
Again, I will not remove what is true. You may redefine it and misconstrue
it all you wish, but with all due respect, that is your problem.
Oh, and the "Christian racist hatemonger in a long line of hate mongers"
line is quite lovely. Unfortunately, it is also laughably false. Please
believe me that if I hated you, I would not even bother trying to warn you
of your doomed course. But whereas I cannot prevent you from rejecting the
God of the Universe, I can -- and am commanded to -- warn you of the dangers
inherent thereof.
Again, you are perfectly free to take what I have written with as much
offense as you desire, but that is hardly a wise course. I too could take
extreme offense at the countless statements on your and other Islamist sites
daring to put a mere man (Mohammed) on par with the eternal God of the
Universe (Jesus Christ, the Righteous). I could, if I so chose, take
extreme offense at the ridiculous attacks on the Word of God by remarkably
uneducated men on these sites, rending Scripture out of context in order to
desperately attempt to manufacture a "discrepancy" or "contradiction" which
would not be present were it not for the a priori assumption of the same. I
could, were I of the mind, take extreme offense at the incredible
misrepresentations of my lovely Savior on your sites. But such would be
unproductive in the extreme, now wouldn't it? I instead choose to
intelligently respond to the information presented therein -- and am branded
a "racist." The irony simply cannot be missed.
Your hackles rise because I refer to you correctly as followers of Mohammed,
yet you unashamedly misrepresent my God and my faith with aplomb!
Tell you what. YOU remove all the statements from your site which I would
consider blasphemous, and I'll change mine. Deal? I don't even expect you
to get your brothers to change theirs, since nobody else has had the
audacity to demand the same from me yet. So, you change your site to not
blaspheme my God and Savior Jesus Christ, and I will change my site not to
"blaspheme" your "prophet" Mohammed, eh?
Either that, or dispense with the silly name-calling and engage me in full
intellectual honesty. You muster up support for your position as best you
can, and I likewise mine, and let us meet in the arena of ideas.
Oh, and at the risk of seeming "racist," "hate-mongering," etc., etc., know
that you are now very close to the top of my prayer list. Whether you like
it or not, I am praying that Jesus bless you abundantly.
Baruch haShem haMashiyach Y'Shua!
michael d macon
http://www.calvarychapel.org/grandrapids/muskegon
http://home.wmis.net/~ixthys
From: converts to islam <yahya@convertstoislam.org>
To: <ixthys@wmis.net>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 12:25 PM
Subject: Racist
Your unwillingness to cooperate only exposes the lies and hatred you are
promoting. You are NOT interesting in any dialogue. When a Muslim comes
along and tells you what you are saying and promoting about his religion
that is offensive and you dismiss him like some piece of insignifgant
piece of trash then what more can I say then that you are an ignorant uneducated
red necked racist. No Muslim will ever listen to the racist trash.
You are indeed a racist, pure and simple.
Yahya
From: michael d macon <ixthys@wmis.net>
To: converts to islam <yahya@convertstoislam.org>
Subject: Re: Racist
Date: Monday, July 12, 1999 5:34 PM
As I said before, tremendously sorry you feel that way. But that is your
choice, and you're free to hold it.
I find it fascinating in the extreme, however, to compare the tenor of the
two sides of our "conversation," and to examine the glaring double-standard.
First to the double-standard: You demand I change a perfectly correct and
accaptable designation of you (I always have and always will differentiate
between "Muslim," which is more of a cultural designation, and
"Mohammedian," which specifically designates a devotee to the "prophet"
Mohammed -- and indeed always has); I challenge you to remove statements
from your page that I myself consider blasphemous. You desire me to alter
words you decide you're going to consider offensive; I respond by
challenging you to alter items on your site I consider offensive. You claim
I misrepresent your religion, saying "When a Muslim comes along and tells
you what you are saying and promoting about his religion that is offensive
and you dismiss him like some piece of insignifgant piece of trash..." I
point out that your own site grossly misrepresents the Word of God and
Jesus, the God of the Word... Your response: "racist!" What is even more
intriguing to me than the sharp double-standard is the absolute inability
(or, at the very least, unwillingness) to recognize it and cope with it that
I am seeing here. Fascinating!
As far at the tenor is concerned, note that I am not only a "Christian
racist hate monger, etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum," but now I also am
an "ignorant, uneducated red necked racist"!!! And yet again, I am
profoundly fascinated not merely in this tremendous disparity, but also in
what I can only hope is an utter unwillingness to recognize it!
I have only two responses (should you even have the courage to have read
this far without shutting up your mind).
One, welcome to the West. Here in the West, we have what is known as
"freedom." This "freedom" is not merely for those professing the "prophet"
Mohammed, but for us infidel, racist, hate-mongering, uneducated rednecked
Christians as well. And Satanists. And New Agers. This is because we have
separation of Church and State here (or "Mosque and State," if you will).
Ideas compete on an equal playing field; there is no sword hung over
anyone's neck to force them to accept any religion or worldview against
conscience. Now, I realize that this leaves "Islam" at a decided
disadvantage; a thinking people are not an easily oppressed people.
However, with all due respect, that is YOUR problem. I as an American will
fight to the death for your right to believe what you want and to propagate
your beliefs as best you are able within the borders of my nation; as a
veteran of the United States Navy, it is my Constitutionally sworn duty. I
also, however, very much reserve the same right to myself. If you wish
therefore to promulgate your religion within the Western sphere, you're
simply going to have to learn to live with the likes of me who will counter
you, not with the sword, but with the Word of God and sound reason.
Two, hate me and the God of the Universe all you will; that too is your
choice. We, however, will continue to love you. Know for a certainty that
you are being prayed for, for blessing. It is not my concern to convince
you; I can't. The Word of God tells me plainly that it is the Holy Spirit's
job to convince you; your fight is with Him. I will therefore not even try.
But that Word tells me that the method He uses is His inerrant Word, and
that I will therefore continue to defend and continue to publish. You may
call love "hate" all you wish, and more power to you. However, I and all my
brethren with me love you. And THAT you will simply have to deal with, too.
May the Father grant you, by the grace of Jesus Christ, through the
illumination of the Holy Spirit, to see your desperate need for a Savior,
and to cry out to Him.
Baruch haShem haMashiyach Y'Shua!
michael d macon
http://www.calvarychapel.org/grandrapids/muskegon
http://home.wmis.net/~ixthys
From: converts to islam [yahya@convertstoislam.org]
Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 2:56 PM
To: ixthys@wmis.net
Subject: Racist
Interesting comments which only reveals your lack of education. You say
"welcome to the west." Well guess what? I, my mother, my grand mother, my
great grand mother and my great great grandmothr were born here.
As for your other over generalizations about Islam and Islamic culture, you
do not know a thing about Islam nor about its culture, which makes you
equally offensive. There is a deep seated animosity towards Islam in your
hear that if for cerain. Just re read your racsist garbage again and
reflect:
"Now, I realize that this leaves "Islam" at a decided
disadvantage; a thinking people are not an easily oppressed people.
However, with all due respect, that is YOUR problem. I as an American will
fight to the death for your right to believe what you want and to propagate
your beliefs as best you are able within the borders of my nation; as a
veteran of the United States Navy, it is my Constitutionally sworn duty. I
also, however, very much reserve the same right to myself. If you wish
therefore to promulgate your religion within the Western sphere, you're
simply going to have to learn to live with the likes of me who will counter
you, not with the sword, but with the Word of God and sound reason."
In short, you certainly do not represent Jesus and I doubt you are even a
Christian. The only person you are fooling with your racist crap is
yourself. The rest of us do NOT buy it in the least and we reject it
outright.
From: michael d macon [ixthys@wmis.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 1999 2:55 PM
To: converts to islam
Subject: Re: Racist
Yet again, sorry you feel that way, but (again) you're perfectly free to
believe what you want, even when it is utterly in conflict with reality.
First, your statement "you don't represent Jesus" I find utterly
fascinating. How do I not, I wonder? On what basis do you say this? I am
left to ponder whether or not you realize what position you have left
yourself in by saying this. It seems that you recognize something that you
don't yet realize you do...
Further, the fact that you "grew up in the West" means absolutely nothing
about knowing what the West is ABOUT. There is at least one entire
generation even here in America that has no clue as to what America is
about, and what terrible price had to be paid to bequeath to them the
stupendous amount that they have. I reiterate and stand by what I said --
including my very truthful comment about the relationship between freedom
and Mohammedism. Here in the West, there is at least ostensibly no state
religion. I cannot force you to accept the Truth; you are perfectly free to
believe whatever it is you wish. I also cannot force you to remove from
your site things which I find offensive or blasphemous -- or even outright
fabrications. You are perfectly free to promulgate whatever it is your
heart desires. THAT SAME RIGHT EXTENDS TO MYSELF AND OTHERS WHO LOVE GOD
AND HIS WORD, a right we jealously guard. Again, I perfectly realize that
this leaves "Islam" at a decided disadvantage -- but again, that is your
problem.
Oh, and whereas name-calling and smoke-blowing can make for very effective
rhetoric, it fails to facilitate dialogue and debate. The fact that I
recognize that Mohammed is definitely NOT a prophet of the God of the
Universe, the fact that I will proclaim with my dying breath the fact that
Jesus IS -- a fact which is eminently demonstrable -- no more makes me a
"racist" than does your rejection of God and His Word in favor of YOUR
religion. My statements are FAVORABLE towards Mohammedism, compared with
what I have read about Christianity on some of the sites you link to! And
this is why I am still left absolutely amazed that you seem either incapable
or unwilling to see the double-standard.
And THAT is why I said, "Welcome to the West." Here in the West, your
religion and my faith are on an equal playing field, so far as winning the
hearts and minds of men are concerned. You have the exact same rights I
do -- which means that what is good for you is good for me, and vice-versa.
Hence my challenge to you to remove from your site what I would find
offensive, before I went and changed one perfectly acceptable, perfectly
correct word on my own site. You demonstrated an absolute unwillingness to
hold yourself to the same standard you wish to hold me to! And whereas I am
highly flattered, I still refuse to succumb to your attempt at forced
disparity. Tremendously sorry.
"As for your other over generalizations about Islam and Islamic culture, you
do not know a thing about Islam nor about its culture, which makes you
equally offensive." Do tell! I find it indescribably intriguing that you
actually feel justified in making this statement! That is thoroughly
fascinating to me! First, it is what is known as an "assertion."
Assertions are almost worthless in rational discourse. Unless, of course,
they are backed up with fact. As a wise man once said, "you cannot fight
nothing with nothing." Please do point out to me my "over generalizations"!
I want to be perfectly accurate in my critique of Mohammedism and its
culture; truth is not served by "over generalizations" or half truths or the
like. So please, illuminate me! Oh, and don't get twisted out of shape
when I don't take your word for it, but check up on what you say.
Second, I am utterly amazed that you can make this statement with what
appears to be a straight face! Some of those links you tout so highly make
the most impressively false statements about God and His Word! The charge
of tritheism, for instance, is rife within them. I have read over and over
and over and over that we God-fearers think that God "had a son." Now,
you -- who of course would NEVER make an "over generalization" about
Christianity, since you can make the above statement in reverse to me --
should know better!
Third, you know NOTHING about my upbringing, my history, or ANYTHING ABOUT
ME, beyond the fact that I boldly and untiringly proclaim that Jesus Christ
is God, Allah is not, the Bible is His Word, and the Qu'ran is merely
interesting literature. The fact that you and your brethren GLADLY proclaim
the converse never seems to cross your mind while you scramble over
yourselves to be the first to screech out the epithet, "RACIST!"
"OFFENSIVE!" Please, do tell me: Why in the world should I be the least
bit concerned of offending you by pointing out that Mohammed was a mere man
who was at extreme variance with God's Word, when you seem absolutely
unconcerned about offending ME by proclaiming that Jesus, the God I love and
serve, was not in fact God but a mere man?
Please, please, please at least TRY to see the stupendous double standard!
"There is a deep seated animosity towards Islam in your hear that if for
cerain" You are correct; I have a VERY deep seated animosity toward
Islam -- and Satanism, Ba'haiism, Hinduism, Buddhishm, Sikhism, Mormonism,
Shintoism, Confucianism, and ALL the other heathen religions of the world.
I do very much hate any system which stands in opposition to God's holy
Truth, since these will only condemn the followers thereof to eternal
damnation. But do I hate YOU? Dear, dear one, please try to understand
this: If I hated you, I would be ECSTATIC that you were following Mohammed,
and therefore doomed. I would do everything in my power to encourage you in
your religion. I would personally pay for your Hajj, and whatever else it
took. Just like if you truly hated ME, you would be THRILLED that I was
following Jesus as God. You would do everything you could to make SURE that
I stayed locked in what you consider false religion, so that I would find
myself on the Last Day burning in the lake of fire. But no more than you
hate me do I hate you. Now, you can BELIEVE that if you like, but I cannot
change that, now can I?
Regardless, I am DEEPLY concerned that millions are being duped by a sweet,
deceptive siren's song. Jesus IS the only Way; Jesus IS God. Truth is not
determined by majority vote; it is IMPOSED by an external source. God's
Word states categorically in Acts 4:12, "Neither is there salvation in ANY
OTHER; for there is no other Name under heaven given among men by which we
must be saved." I believe that thoroughly with every fiber of my being; and
because I love you despite of your own hatred for me, I will continue to
tell it to you.
Baruch haShem haMashiyach Y'Shua!
mike
From: converts to islam [yahya@convertstoislam.org]
Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 3:02 PM
To: ixthys@wmis.net
Subject: Secularism
Since you seem to praise the so called merits of godless secularism, you may
be interested in an Islamic critique of this satanic system.
{Islamist article deleted for space considerations; can be found here}
From: michael d macon [ixthys@wmis.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 1999 3:01 PM
To: converts to islam
Subject: Re: Secularism
I shall indeed read this at my leisure; however, when did I say I praise the
merits of "godless secularism?"
This nation -- America -- was founded on Christian values. That is an
undeniable fact (though the hippies have finally taken over our institutions
and are merrily about the work of redacting our history; but that is another
issue). Our laws (prior to the middle of this century) reflected and were
predicated on that Christian foundation. Our laws were based on the Law of
God, etc.
Within that framework, we recognize that man is woefully fallen. Whenever
there has been a state church, there was tyranny -- take, for instance, the
crusades. In order to protect the right of the True Church to flourish, we
must protect the right of the false church to do so -- and heathen
religions, as well. We are instead called by Jesus to change the hearts of
men. In a representative democracy, when the majority of men's hearts are
regenerate and godly, the nation will be regenerate and godly, even when the
laws are not. When the majority of men's hearts are unregenerate and
ungodly, the nation will be unregenerate and ungodly, even when the laws are
not.
Please understand this. The fact that you are free in the West to believe
what you will is directly linked to the fact that the majority of these
nations has a Christian past (and at least in America's case, a thoroughly
Christian foundation)
From: converts to islam [yahya@convertstoislam.org]
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 1999 10:52 AM
To: ixthys@usa.net
Subject: More hetred on you site
I see you have placed the follwoing site on you site:
http://www.islamreview.com/html/wife.htm
The information is nothing more than lies, fabrications and distortions of
meanings of the clear text of the Quran and Sunnah. Once agian this proves
how intellecually dishonet you are. This confirms my earlier opinion of you
which I have placed on my site.
Yahya
{I recommend strongly that interested parties read the actual article in question, and compare with recorded facts; then judge Yahya's apoplectic charge of "lies, fabrications, and distortions of meanings..."}
From: converts to islam [yahya@convertstoislam.org]
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 1999 11:35 AM
To: ixthys@usa.net
Subject: Christian values?
Hmm, it seems to me that when so called "Christian values" reigned in
America slavery and racism was in full force. Not suprising, since the Bible
encourgage slavery and has been used many times to condone it. Better go
back to school sir. Please refer to the following url for this fact:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl.htm
Note what one of your great leaders said:
"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in
the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed
in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization,
and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." (Jefferson Davis,
President of the Confederate States of America )
You may want to read this article on Muslim Slaves in America:
http://www.savannahmorningnews.com/smn/stories/032799/ACCmuslimslaves.html
I also cut and paste a book review of SERVANTS OF ALLAH: AFRICAN MUSLIMS
ENSLAVED IN THE AMERICAS
by Sylviane A. Diouf. Pub: New York University Press, New York, US, 1998.
Pp: 254 (inc. notes, bibliography and index), pbk: $18.50. By Naeem
ul-Haq.
{Islamist review deleted for space; interested parties, please purchase the book listed above.}
I have not even begun to write to you what traditonal christianity says
about women, it would shock you.
Yahya
From: michael d macon [ixthys@wmis.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 1999 8:16 PM
To: converts to islam
Subject: Re: Christian values?
This is as disingenuous as me saying that since women are treated as slaves
in Mohammedian states that Islam teaches that they are slaves -- something
you doubtless would deny with every fiber of your being.
Why be so disingenuous, Yahya? Why are you so terrified of the Truth?
When "Christian values" finally DID regain the upper hand in America,
slavery was abolished! Mr. Davis was a politician, friend. Not a Christian
scholar. I defy you to find where the Bible "encourages" slavery. When God
got a hold of the Jewish nation, He legislated heavily in OPPOSITION TO
slavery -- in stark contrast to the nations surrounding them. He changed
the very meaning of "slave" to what we now would consider a "limited-term
indentured servant" -- that is, not a permanent chattel, but an indentured
citizen who was given this option of last resort in order to retire debts he
otherwise couldn't, so as to keep his lands and property within the family.
The maximum term for this was seven years, and even then there was loving
provision to truncate that term -- if the GO'EL, or "kinsman redeemer" paid
off the man's debt, he was manumitted.
It was because of the return to Christian values that England (and
eventually America) returned to the Bible and cast off the evil bonds of
slavery. It is the Bible which states categorically, "it is for freedom
which Christ has made us free" and "there is neither Jew nor Gentile, slave
nor free, male nor female, for we are all one in Christ Jesus." On the
basis of this ontological equality, slavery was shown to be logically
untenable.
Pray tell, who was it (do you suppose) who introduced the black slave trade
to the West? Are you the least bit familiar with the history of (for
instance) the origin of the Swahili tongue, and why it came to be? What
trade do you believe formed it, and what was their nationality? Are you
familiar with the history of East Africa?
It seems that YOU are the one who needs school time, Yahya.
Here are the facts:
1) Six full centuries before Mohammed was even conceived, Jesus
Christ walked this earth as a Man; He died to save men from eternal death.
This is a fact of history.
2) The New Testament was in black-and-white six centuries before
Mohammed's conception; the Old Testament for nearly twenty-six centuries.
The purity of this text is truly astounding and absolutely unparalleled by
any ancient literature.
3) God's standard, as recorded in His Word, is ABSOLUTE PERFECTION.
If you are not absolutely perfect, Yahya, you are not going to be with Him
on the Final Day. But since none of us truly CAN be perfect (one tiny sin
separates you infinitely from the infinitely Holy One), Jesus died to take
your place. If you place your trust in Him, the Father sees you as
righteous as His Son is. Otherwise you will stand before Him on that day,
on the basis of your own righteousness...
4) Once you accept Jesus as your Saviour, He comes and dwells with
you. I have an intimate fellowship, an intimate relationship with Him. He
speaks to me from His Word and through His Spirit. Tell me, Yahya; do you
have an intimate relationship with Allah?
Jesus wants to give you life. You are free to reject that offer, of course;
but the offer is there nonetheless.
Baruch haShem haMashiyach Y'Shua
mike
We will be adding all continued correspondence to this page as it
arrives.